Item 1
A.G.M. and election of officers
Item 2
Update from previous meetings
Mineral Site Allocations Consultation
Regional Spatial Strategy - Housing on the Green Belt
Castle Lane West Alterations and Road Noise
Mill Road North
Environment Awareness Week
Item 3
Proposed Events License Muscliff Park
Lawrence Robson - Community Parks and Countryside Officer and Steven Wright - Prinicipal Licensing Offer
Item 4
Gypsy and Traveller Site in Bournemouth
Ms Em Poore - Community Cohesion Project Officer (Partnerships and Improvement) and Ms Maggs Smith - Housing Officer, Bournemouth Churches Housing Association
Item 5
Residents Question Time
Residents are invited to submit questions on local matters
Item 6
Any Other Business
Proposed date of next forum meeting - 18th June 2009

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Item 1
A.G.M. and Election of Officers

A.G.M and Election of Officers
Following Committee Members were prepared to stand for re-election to posts within the Committee:

Leslie Deller - Chairman
Ray O’Luby - Vice Chairman
Marion Oliver - Treasurer
Wendy Sharp - Secretary

No new nominations were received, therefore Committee will continue as at present.

Forum Finances - Financial statement was displayed and is available if requested. Chairman explained stated of finances and reported that despite many promises to the contrary, Forum funding may be compromised. Committee will keep Forum informed.

Item 2
Update from previous meetings

Mineral Site Allocations Consultation
Chairman thanked Cllrs Whittaker and Rey for publicising the issue. Amongst other sites in Dorset there is a proposal to extract sand and gravel from a site which is located approximately 1.2km east of West Parley. The site is bordered to the south by the river Stour and the Stour Valley Way, with the residential area of Muscliff to the south. Parley Court is located to the north of the site. Within 200 meters of the north side are the residential properties and small businesses, including Parley Manor, Parley Court Barn and Farm, Swollow Barn and Tudor Cottage.
The residential areas of Muscliff and Redhill are likely to have views of the workings.
It is estimated that the annual output will be 150,000 tonnes per annum, giving the site a ten year life. The site will be from 2-4.5 meters deep with an average 3.1 meter depth. Extraction will require 63 lorry movements per day with access being through a new road created through fields to the north of the site bringing it out onto the A3073 Parley Lane, where it will be joined by a mini roundabout (exact location not yet determined).
Restoration will be to return the majority of the land to agricultural through replacing the sand and gravel extracted with inert waste. This will require a further 87 movements per day from year four. It is envisaged that restoration would take 2-3 years beyond when extraction is finished, making the site operational for 12/13 years.
Chairman stated that an objection to the proposal had been submitted on the basis that the area was an important public space and contained a nature reserve. He also stated that Dorset County Council had informed him that comments on the proposal had commonly raised concerns about the landfill and had confirmed that it would comprise of excavated materials from construction sites (e.g. chalks and clays). It would not include house waste.
The proposal would be considered by members of the Minerals and Waste Policy Joint Advisory Committee probably in March.
Regional Spatial Strategy - Housing on the Green Belt
Secretary thanked all who had collected signatures on petitions and helped with letters of objection and all who wrote or emailed their objections.
GOSW has received 35,000 objections which have delayed the results until at least the summer 09. Efforts continue in Westminster with a recent meeting of cross party South West M.P.s meeting with Ian Wright - Communities Minister.
SWRA itself has objected to 2 years of their work being ignored at the EiP and by Hazel Blears - Sec of State. Terry Stewart, President of the CPRE confirms Dorset County Council is still planning to take the Sec of State to High Court for Judicial Review if she confirms the Dorset housing numbers.
Castle Lane West Alterations and Road Noise











Response from Ian Kalra, Design Manager, Planning and Transport to the following questions:-


Regarding the above new road schemes, I would be grateful if you could please provide the details requested below for me to read out at the public meeting on 12th February 2009 of the Throop, Muscliff, Strouden, Townsend and Holdenhurst Area Forum (TMSTH).

Regarding Castle Lane West:

The impression was given that there would be a bus lane when there is, in effect, really only an extended bus-stopping area (at the War Memorial Homes), the extended area being in fact dangerous for passengers, in that buses are encouraged to speed up ahead of the actual bus-stop, and then brake suddenly. Short of moving the bus-stop to the beginning of the bus-stopping area, instead of its existing position at the end, can you please tell me of any safety measures which could be introduced?

Can you provide up to date figures of annual average daily traffic (taking account of traffic on both sides of Castle Lane West) between Ibbertson Road and Cooper Dean Roundabout?

Can you confirm whether or not any of the access roads to the War Memorial Homes have now been designated as through roads, as one adjacent to Ibbertson Road is being used as such?

Regarding the Wessex Way northbound sliproad:

Concerning the new bus-stop (for Ringwood/Salisbury buses) a notice there states that the bus-stop is still not in use.
Can you please confirm whether or not this bus-stop is due to become operational and, if so, when, and if not, given the removal of all the hedging and protective fencing, were any efforts made by the Council to ensure that the bus-stop would be operational?

Is it possible for a new bus-stop to be positioned next to the Toby Carvery in Castle Lane East for access to the Ringwood/Salisbury buses (which turn at Bournemouth Hospital) and also for access to the X12 buses to Christchurch, there being no bus stops on that side of Castle Lane East, and yet there are two bus-stops on the opposite side of Castle Lane East?

Do you have a date when safety railings are to be placed in position alongside the pedestrian path/cycleway between the pedestrian crossing and the (non operational) bus-stop?

Can you provide details of the numbers of traffic accidents at the roundabout and northbound slip road since the implementation of the new road layout and provision of a dedicated northbound lane?

(Can you provide up to date figures of annual average daily numbers of vehicles using the Cooper Dean Roundabout, slip roads, and flyover?

Can you tell me the reason why those using the pedestrian crossing in the area of the Cooper Dean Pub have to wait so long for a pedestrian phase to appear, and why vehicles from the Pub are still allowed to drive though the crossing at red, endangering pedestrians and making the pedestrian phase shorter?

Dear Mr O'Luby,

I must apologise again for taking so long to get back to you.

I have provided responses to your questions in the order that you have raised them:









The bus lane installed is indeed relatively short but still provides assistance in improving bus journey times. The bus stop was installed towards the east of the lane as this is the closest safe position to the previous location of the stop to maintain good accessibility from the residential properties in this area. The stop arrangement is really no different to that at many bus laybys at other locations in the town. We will, however, monitor the situation and feed your comments into the Safety Audit process.

The nearest current counter on Castle Lane West is located between Woodbury Avenue and Craigmoor Way. The annual average daily traffic figure (both directions) for 2008 is 32,000. Please note that this figure is provisional and yet to be finalised.

There is a link road between Ibbertson Road and Memorial Homes which provides access to the homes. The exit from the homes onto Castle Lane West has been moved further eastwards than the original location as part of the scheme. This arrangement could be used as a short cut onto Castle Lane West from Ibbertson Road as you state, but this is exactly the same situation as before the new road scheme was implemented.

The Council are currently in discussions wth Wilts & Dorset Bus company about the use of the bus layby on the slip road. I will let you you know the outcome of these discussions in due course.

I have raised your request for an extra bus stop on Castle Lane East with the Council's Public Transport team who have given the following response: 'The Council would certainly consider placing a bus stop where you suggest by the Toby Carvery. This would depend on approval by the respective ward members and also by the bus operator/s. Your request is for this stop to be introduced to access buses to Ringwood, Salisbury and Christchurch. The prefix ‘X’ is attached to these routes, which indicates a limited stop service. The Council is unable to speak specifically for Wilts and Dorset Bus Company but our understanding is that there would be a reluctance to introduce additional stops on these routes. Previously Wilts and Dorset have informed us that the main purpose of these routes and their main patronage and consequently viability, is for point to point journeys from Bournemouth to Salisbury, Ringwood, Christchurch, Lymington and other main destinations. The network of local bus services provided mainly by Transdev Yellow Buses generally allow reasonable access from your geographical area to essential facilities and also interchange with the rest of the network. While I appreciate it is desirable to have direct bus access to destinations beyond local facilities this is not as essential as provision to essential services. Should residents wish to go to more distant destinations and not be able to walk to say the Hospital then they can use local services to interchange. We will though in our next liaison meeting with Wilts and Dorset raise this issue and see if a solution can be progressed.'

There is no requirement to install safety barriers in this location.

There has been one reported injury accident between 1 August and 30 November 2008 on Castle Lane West (between Ibbertson Road and Cooper Dean), the north-east bound entry slip road and the west side of the Cooper Dean roundabout. This is the most recent data avalable.

The only nearby counter on the A338, Wessex Way, is located to the south-west of Cooper Dean junction (near the north-east end of Queen's Park Golf Course). The annual average daily traffic figure for the north-east bound direction is 31,000 and south-west bound direction is 32,000. Please note that these figures are provisional and yet to be finalised.

During peak traffic periods the operation of the pedestrian crossing signals on Castle Lane West (by the Cooper Dean pub) has to be set such that the lights change after a maximum delay of 40 seconds from the time the push button is activated.
If this were not the case, the resulting traffic queues would cause the Cooper Dean Gyratory to 'lock-up'. At off peak times the lights are more responsive to pedestrians.
No vehicles are allowed to travel through the crossing when a red light is shown for traffic.

I hope that this information is of assistance to you.

Kind regards,
Ian Kalra

Mill Road North
Written statement from Cllr Whittaker:-

On the matter of Mill road north for the forum meeting, think you really only need to give a update on the current situation.

After a year of constant hassle with Highways over the problems of IF Mill road was maintainable as a BOAT, byway open to all traffic, even after obtaining information under the freedom of information last Feb, March from legal services, which showed that this road, that the council had a responsibility to make the road safe for users and accordingly must fill in potholes to avoid risks and danger to users, never the less, Mrs, Johnson and myself continue to have endless emails of a nature that one considers unhelpful.

This resulted in both myself writing a very detail report, enclosing all the information obtain last year to the OMBUDSMAN, this complain had to be supported by a resident, in this case Mrs. Johnson, the completed forms/attachment went off before Christmas, in the new year Mrs. Johnson learned that the Ombudsman had be assigned to our complain, meantime again legal services has passed to the transport officer her finding and recommendation on the 24th December, again also after obtaining this email and its findings, BUT NOT UNTIL THE 27TH JANUARY, this being more than four weeks after the Transport officer had received that advice from legal services.
Also the council had sought advice from another professional independent person dated 13th December, which once again confirmed those findings last year, in other words, that Mill road north is a public carriageway, repairable by the highway authority, these documents provide many individual dates and more interesting detail information showing what could happen if court proceedings were brought forward.

Now the council are very keen to requesting us to withdraw proceedings, and have stated that they wish to resolve this matter locally, my advice to Mrs. Johnson is NOT TO DO SO, until the Ombudsman has reported back on her findings, this is just a very, very short up to date statement on this, unpleasant episode, which COULD AND SHOULD, have been avoided in the first place, we are awaiting a letter of apology and an ex-gratia payment.
Environment Awareness Week
The Big Green Fortnight will be 15th May - 31st May and is combined with Poole.

There are already lots of activities planned, and it was noted that this is about celebrating what we already have as well as adding more and engaging with the community.

It was mentioned at the climate change conference that more needed to be done in the community to give people ideas on how they can life sustainably.

It is hoped this will be an annual event and start to make money rather than incur cost.

It was noted that Climate change needs to be a campaign and not just a performance indicator and this is a good way of getting this more into the community providing interest and inspiration.

It was confirmed that 5th June is world environment day, and that there will be events that happen outside the big green fortnight and this can be included.

A discussion was held around Friends of fisherman’s walk recently achieving a breathing spaces grant and there is an opportunity for further funding. Ideas need to be generated for a theme to apply for this funding. Two suggestions were: promote the Big Green Fortnight or A Time of Transitions.

It was confirmed that the 'Big Green Bus' - co-incidentally a retired Bournemouth Transport vehicle, will be visiting mainly schools and the schools that show the most interest will get it for the first year as there is a need for teachers and governors to be behind it.

It was asked if the bus could be parked at Fisherman’s Walk and Pelhams.

More funds are still needed to enable the bus to come.

It was noted this will have national recognition and that Radio Solent are interested in covering this.

Transdev have put marketing, promotional expertise and sponsorship into this and were thanked for their contribution.

Mr Lee Green will be invited to speak at the June Forum.
Citizens Advice Bureau
CAB has advised Forum they will now be opening later in the afternoon.
Proposed New River Crossing to Hurn
Work on the proposed new foot/cycle/bridleway bridge in conjunction with Connect 2 with money from The Peoples Lottery, is not expected to be started until at least 2013, due to financial climate and access factors.

Question: Will lottery money be there in 2013?
Answer: Yes, unless project scrapped.

Item 3
Proposed Events License - Muscliff Park

Lawrence Robson - Community Parks & Countryside Officer and Steven Wright - Principal Licensing Officer
Lawrence Robson explained it is his role to provide more responsible use of open spaces and parks, like open days.
Last year’s Muscliff Fun Day needed a license, but these are not cost effective every year and they want a permanent license. This is not an alcohol license.
There were display boards explaining ‘what’ and ‘why’ and a questionnaire to gauge public response and there will be full public consultation.
If application is made there will be light blue notices posted on lamp-posts every 100 metres for 28 days, advertisement in the Echo and on Council Website and a plan in the Council offices.
It will be submitted to all relevant groups, Police, Fire Service, child Protection, for assessment of law and order, safety and noise.
Comments must be from people in the viscinity and Lawrence pointed out it is an open area, therefore, homes are quite far away for live music.
There will be a 28 day window and representation should be made in writing or email and through local Councillors.
A hearing will take place and the proposal granted or rejected, with or with no conditions attached.

How much will a license cost and how long will it last?
Approximately £1,100 + annual fee for enforcement and it will last for life or until surrendered.

Who gets the £1000 costs?
Licensing Department fort administration.

Would it be better renewed annually in case it is problematic?
If there were noise/traffic/crime and disorder problems a review of license can be requested and the Board can remove the license or apply conditions.

What Licensing Board?
Bournemouth borough Council under 2003 Licensing and Gambling Board Act, gives charging structures.

Money for license is coming from profits from last year’s event.

When will it start?
Before the summer this year. It will allow for such activities as Family Fun Days, Cinema, Theatre or any public performance. No alcohol will be licensed.

What is the annual fee?
Depends on the number of people expected £70 - £100, if under 5,000 people. People will pay for stalls.

Cllr Rey: Stated she, Cllr Shaw and Cllr Trickett are all on the Licensing Board and wished to allay fears. They just want to be able to act as others do, e.g. Winton Carnival.
There will be a proper committee set up, which will not allow music to be too noisy - it will be very structured, a controlled meeting for family entertainment.
If there are ever any problems at any time, contact: or telephone Council on 451177.

When will the 28 day consultation start?
Could be in 2 months.

Townsend Community Centre have activities on the school playing field - should they have a license?
Depends. E.g. if a battle re-inaction for 1 hour out of 5 - No.
If all day entertainment - Yes.
Council looks at each case and is not trying to stop events. Stalls and low level entertainment could be theatre/cinema, etc.

Item 4
Gypsy and Traveller Site in Bournemouth

Ms Em Poore - Community Cohesion Project Officer (Partnerships & Improvement)
and Ms Maggs Smith - Housing Officer, Bournemouth Churches Housing Association
Ms Maggs Smith did not attend.

Chairman advised there had been concerns raised about the ability of Forum to manage and talk about this subject and thanked Cllr MacLoughlin for enabling it to go ahead.
The aim of this Item was not to talk specifically about the choice of site which is on the edge of our Forum area, but to understand how it will be managed and to hear our concerns.
Forum is an open and free space for questions, including difficult ones, but Gypsies and Travellers are a recognised minority group and no racist remarks would be accepted.
He asked all speakers be treated with respect and expressed confidence we can work together on this.

Cllr MacLoughlin took the floor and stated Bournemouth has a long tradition of accommodating Gypsies and Travellers, many settling in East and West Howe over generations.
There are different groups, e.g. New age, Romany, Irish, Showmen, etc.
Because Bournemouth has no facilities, the groups set up unauthorised encampments on public land causing public anxiety and clean-up costs. This harms the reputation of the Town with locals and visitors with camps such as at Hengistbury and on the East Cliff prior to the Air Festival.

Costs approx £40k p.a. - mainly for clean-up, not including the Police costs when called to incidents, which could double this figure. Boredom Busters at Redhill was cancelled and family enjoyment of open space curtailed.
Present arrangements are unsatisfactory and we need to do something about it.

The Law under Housing Act 2004 and Caravan Act 1969, states Council has a duty to make a Housing Needs Assessment in our area, including the needs of Gypsies and Travellers.
The South West Regional Assembly, Regional Spatial Strategy lays down the number of Permanent and Transit Pitches we must supply (now 28 Permanent and 12 Transit) and we must do a search.
The Government can intervene if the Council does not comply. We also have a duty to promote good race relations.

Process - SWRA RSS public consultation in 2007 laid down 28 Permanent/20 Transit pitches, Examination In Public in June 08 felt evidence did not support these numbers and transit pitches were reduced to 12. Secretary of State, Hazel Blears, will confirm final numbers, along with all housing numbers, in her Report - published June 09.

Possible Solutions: Any site must be within the Borough (e.g. not at Airport) and a site search has taken place across the Town. The transit Site is a priority. It must go to Planning and must therefore go through Public consultation.
If we get planning permission, how will it be managed to ensure nuisance kept to a minimum.

Site Selection - Riverside Avenue proposed for Transit Site - to be called ‘Riverside Meadows’. It is owned by Cooper Dean estate, who have no objections.
Why this area? - Adjacent to the Spur Road and it is away from housing. Travellers usually arrive from the North or East. It is easy to get to the site.
Council is looking at 12 months planning permission as land has planning permission for offices and it is therefore likely it cannot be permanent.
A plan of the proposed site was displayed.

Public Consultation - There will be drop in sessions
at Townsend Community Centre - Tuesday, 24th February, 5.30pm - 7.30pm
and 3rd march - 9am to 12noon
and at Littledown Centre - Wednesday, 25th February - 9am to 12noon
and 4th March - 2.30pm - 4.30pm and 6.30pm to 9 pm,
with stands FAQs, Officers and Councillors available. Council is talking to a Social Housing Partner who will then submit a planning application.

Site Set-Up and Management - Not Council. It will be a Social Housing partner with the expertise and knowledge for the design and construction and they will submit a planning application.
There will be a management contract in place and a site presence for bookings, arrival cash fees and facilities management. The management fee will be offset by the fees paid by people using the site. There will be security to ensure there is no anti-social behaviour.

Next steps - Consultation events and a special one for the Retired Nurses National Home on Monday with the Residents and management, followed by a planning application and setting up funding. It is hoped this will be in place by early Summer.

Evaluation - A residents Liaison Group will be formed and public acceptance is the key issue. Current arrangements do not work and Council wants go get more positive management. It will be reviewed in early 2010. It will be the key to knowing what we will do long term.

Question 1:
How do Travellers get to the site?
Hoped to access it from the farm crossing with lights on the A338, but this is no longer an option. They will use A338/Cooper Dean/Castle Lane/Riverside Avenue.

Question 2:
Is it a temporary site because of Troika?
Yes 12 months.

Question 3:
As Travellers are not normally known as being law-abiding - they don’t normally follow the rules.
Council cannot move them on without a Transit Site. Most people will book and go directly there. If they set up an unauthorised encampment, they can be forced to move to the site or must go elsewhere.
Answer 2:
Transit facility will allow them to pay. Those who want to will follow the rules under Section 62 of the Public Order Act and 2 references will be required. If they do not pass the criteria, they must move within 1 hour and may not return.

Question 4:
Riverside Avenue is not adequate to carry large vehicles. When they were there 2 years ago there was trouble on the narrow road. What about access and hard standing?
Over the last 6 years, there have been 2 unauthorised encampments - they can and have got in and out. There will be no road widening.

Question 5:
Council is now saying this is temporary, but it is doubted.
Why not move on or impound vehicles and get them to clean up?
What happens to the overflow - they will go randomly to any place?
The FAQ leaflet is romantic - can Council get funding for just one year?
Dept. of Communities and Local Government funding is only available for permanent sites planned for over 10 years and for our situation, we will not be able to access the scheme. Council is talking to the department and hopes they will help.

Question 6:
If we do not have guaranteed funding it will still come out of the Borough. Why not impound the vehicles and make them pay for damage? Council keeps saying it will manage them but doesn’t. If they turn up it is only for short periods of time.
Because there is no Transit Site, Police and Local Authority cannot move them on, but if there is a site, can do so within 1 hour.
At the moment, we have regular unauthorised encampments and cannot deal with them satisfactorily, causing residents’ concern and costs. It should not be allowed to continue - costs are £40k + Police time.

Question 7:
Bylaws already stand - vehicles should be impounded. Why not use Sopley or Matchams. Spur Road is the main arterial road into Bournemouth for Tourism.
Sites outside Bournemouth’s boundaries cannot be used, by Law.

Question 8:
What about safety of people using Riverside Avenue. 2 cars passing are dangerous; never mind the Sewage Lorries and the ducks.
Traffic passing is a Highways issue and they must find a way around it.

Question 9:
What about elderly people going to and from the Nurses Home?
Only small numbers are expected. Golf Club traffic is already there.

Question 10:
How can you guarantee they will go to the site, not just carry on over the flyover?
They are entitled to use the highway if they have a legal vehicle and will have to find their way back.
Answer 2:
It is a big opportunity to separate the wheat from the chaff - we must give them the opportunity. Section 62 is only available if we have a site.
We must be fair, firm and transparent. Where people do not meet the criteria, they can be removed from the Borough in one hour. If they return, we do then have powers.

Question 11:
Will the site be enclosed with cameras and I.D?
Yes, good fences/good neighbours. We have to give people a chance - if they don’t take that chance they must leave.
A one year temporary site makes sense as we can talk again and review the situation. A Community Group is a good suggestion and it is hoped it will go forward. This can be a good solution if we let it be.
Answer 2:
Cllr Rey. We have taken a lead from Bristol Unitary Authority (officer i/c Ian Holding) which has a very firm policy.
Travellers will be asked:
(i) are you a Gypsy or Traveller as defined by the Housing Act
(ii) are you in transit, i.e. not homeless and
(iii) may we see your references and if they do not check out, we do not have to offer them a place.

Question 12:
How many caravans will there be on the site?
12 pitches which will accommodate the family unit and a towing vehicle or van.
Very narrow road not suitable for caravans - much fly-tipping over past years, irrespective of Gypsies and travellers.

Question 13:
Once arrived, they will have freedom to move around and will encroach on the golf course to Holdenhurst. For years a park and ride to keep traffic out of the Town has been talked about - how does this fit in?
Park and ride is part of the Troika scheme, which with economic climate, will not happen for a couple of years or more.
Freedom - same as now, but once they are set up inside the site, if the Travellers go to another place inside the Borough, they can be escorted outside of the borough.

Question 14 and Point of Order:
Chairman of Littledown and Iford Forum objected to “inaccurate information” and demanded clarification.
TMSTH Forum Chair reminded him that under our constitution, he had no mandate to speak and that Forum is for local resident Members.
However, Cllr MacLoughlin responded:-
The proposal is for 12 pitches, lower than originally proposed in the Regional Spatial Strategy. A “pitch” is for a family group, typically a towing vehicle + caravan, but there may be an additional vehicle.
Answer 2:
These are their homes in the same way as some people live in 2 or 3 bedroom flats. A 12 year old daughter may have her own van and there may be a van for all the sons, equating to 3 bedrooms.

Question 15 and Point of Order:
Representative from Retired Nurses National Home wished to speak and was reminded of above.
Several Forum Members proposed allowing Nurses be heard, which was accepted by Chair and question was accepted.
Statement by Cllr MacLoughlin and on Power Point presentation that proposed site is “away from housing” makes consultation a disgrace.
There are 57 people living in the Retired Nurses National Home - if they were all in separate houses they would be properly considered, instead of learning about the scheme in the local newspaper.
It is already dangerous for Residents of the Home using Riverside Avenue with the sewage lorries and now 100 vehicles per day from the Law Courts.
Public Consultation is here now and there are additional events planned. The results will not please everyone, but there has to be a better way. It is bound to affect somebody.

Question 16:
Tobias Ellwood M.P. It is understood the Council has its hands tied. People may behave, but there have been poor experiences in the past and some may not.
The rules are wrong - does not make sense - there are appropriate places but Bournemouth is not one - we are a tourist destination and do not have spaces for a large site.
If Conservatives win the next election, the Regional Spatial Strategy will be scrapped and other laws tightened.

Question 17:
Forum member was saddened to listen to the Councillors.
Their minds are made up and this consultation is a sham. There is no real concern for the elderly Retired Nurses as there would be if it was situated 200 yards from their homes.
Cllr Rey: Cllr Rey had the experience of having an unauthorised encampment near her home last year and it was awful. A proper transit Site is required.

Question 18:
What if there is an overflow?
On FAQ sheet (reproduced below). Situation not expected as numbers based on past experience.

Question 19:
Forum Member had serious experience when unauthorised encampment was last on land behind Nurse Home, behind the Hospital, when he was threatened by a Traveller’s Rottweiler as he walked along Riverside Avenue.
The possible risk of walking from Holdenhurst, across the footbridge and along to Tesco, or for other Forum members who walk to the Village Sports Centre and the Hospital, when there is a Traveller Site even closer to the road would now be unacceptable - all trust is gone.
Only 24 hour, 7/7 residential supervision of any such site will go any way towards reassuring Forum members. This road, which has no footpaths beside the proposed site, is well used by walkers and cyclists from Holdenhurst direction and from Townsend.
Forum member also sought reassurance the Police will be able to go on to the Site, without accusation of “harassment” as they would in any other area and that if used, there will be a full and transparent assessment of the site at the end of the period.
Evaluation must be meaningful. The operator of the site must make sure it is well run and the issue of reassurance is key. Robust measures must be supported by the police. The site must be seen by the public to be well run and managed.

Vice Chair reminded Forum that fly-tipping goes on continuously and when Gypsies and Travellers are nowhere near. This behaviour comes from people in settled homes. Let us have CCTV cameras by all means, so that all of us stop it.

FAQ Sheet distributed at Forum reproduced below:-

Site Provision Questions and Answers

Who are the Gypsies and Travellers?
Romany Gypsies have lived in Britain for hundreds of years.
Irish Travellers also have a long tradition of travelling in Britain.
More recently people known as New Travellers have pursued a nomadic tradition.
There are now children of these families born on the road with no experience of house-dwelling.
Romany Gypsies and Irish Travellers are two separate recognised ethnic groups and are protected under Race Equality legislation.
All Travellers, including New Travellers, have their right to roam protected by Human Rights Legislation, by the Housing Act 2004, the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004, the Children’s Act 2004 and the Regional Spatial Strategy.

Does the Council have to provide a site?

The Housing Act 2004 requires Councils to assess the accommodation needs of Gypsies and Travellers and to provide accommodation based on the findings of that assessment.
We also have to help meet that need by identifying sites in local planning documents.
If we fail to identify sites the Government can direct us to do so.
We don’t have to build all of the homes ourselves, but we do have to allocate specific pieces of land in our Local Development Framework, which Gypsies or Travellers can apply for planning permission on and expect to receive consent.

What is a transit site?
Also called a stopping place, this is a place that Gypsies and Travellers can use for short periods of time while they are travelling. They may stay for days or weeks, up to a maximum of three months.
The site will have sanitation facilities, power supply and other supports. This is the equivalent to a settled person’s B&B and like a B&B, it is pre-paid and typically, pre-booked.

Transit sites make sense, but why do Travellers need permanent sites?
Over the centuries, more and more traditional stopping places have been closed up or sold for development. These days, it is extremely difficult for families to live well on the road as they used to.
Cold calling and traditional work is harder and harder to come by and education is becoming increasingly critical for all of us, in finding work, or even working for ourselves, whether Settled or Traveller.
Traveller parents still have a cultural aversion to bricks and mortar, but have now come to understand the need to ensure a stable education for their children.
Permanent sites offer a compromise solution that everyone can live with and that gives the best possible chance to the future generations.

Why provide for people who don’t pay any council tax and who leave rubbish everywhere?
Gypsies and Travellers camping in an unauthorised manner in Bournemouth do not pay any Bournemouth Council Tax because we offer no mechanism for them to pay.
As soon as they can rent a pitch on a Transit site, part of that fee will pay their water, electricity, council tax, rubbish collection and other services as part of their bill, just as we do when we pay for a night at a hotel or B&B.
As part of the managed site, rubbish removal costs and Council tax will be included in the price of their stay and they will be required to keep the site tidy or they will be asked to leave.
At present the Council is spending your hard-earned tax money, dealing with unauthorised sites - legal costs and clean up costs - these costs will markedly reduce, once proper accommodation is made.

Why do it now?
Making this provision for these groups fulfils a duty that we have; it’s the right thing to do. Bournemouth currently has no provision.
The Government is encouraging this provision by making funding available. If we identify a site that meets the Department for Communities and Local Government’s (CLG) criteria, with a use period of at least 10 years, we can apply for this funding to convert that site and make it ‘fit for purpose’.
If we don’t progress a site we will be forced to do so by Government and have to fund this ourselves.
Bristol City reduced their costs to around £5,000 a year by providing a permanent transit site completely funded by Central Government (so local Council tax did not go up).
Now they spend the money they used to spend on moving people along, for local initiatives and projects, benefiting local communities.

What will the benefits be?
The key to reducing unauthorised camping is to provide authorised sites. Unauthorised sites cause community tension. An authorised site should prevent unauthorised camping and enable the Police to deal swiftly with any unauthorised encampments that do occur.
In addition, Gypsies and Travellers experience the worst health and education of any disadvantaged groups in Britain. Providing more authorised sites nationally will help to tackle this, improving their quality of life and ultimately reducing demands on health services.
Further, a decent access to an education, facilitated by safe, legal places to stop, will greatly improve life chances of future generations, offering Gypsies and Travellers a genuine chance to contribute positively to a society that has historically kept them at arm’s length. The 2004 Children’s Act stipulates that every child has the right to an equal place in society. Every child includes every Gypsy & Traveller child as well.

Who will manage the stopping place?
The transit facility will be managed by a local housing partner. They will be responsible for arranging the reservations / booking process and ensuring it is well run. They will also deal with any problems that occur, as would any hotel/motel manager.

Will the stopping place be free to use?
No, anyone booking a place at the transit facility will have to pay a fee, exactly as they would at a hotel or B&B. A licence agreement will be in place for each pitch setting out the charge, rules for use of amenities, maximum stay and the basic terms and conditions, again exactly as is posted on the back of every hotel room door.
Anyone staying beyond their agreement, or not keeping to the agreement in terms of behaviour, will have to leave, receiving the exact same sanctions as anyone causing a disturbance in a hotel would.
In short, a stopping place is the culturally appropriate equivalent to a motel or B&B.

What will you do to stop Gypsies and Travellers pitching where they like?
Having an authorised site and a good booking and management system will prevent this from happening in the first place in the vast majority of cases.
For those visitors who don’t choose to play by the rules, the introduction of a transit site means that the Police will have greater powers to move immediately (within one hour) any Gypsies or Travellers who pitch elsewhere, directing them instead either to the pay-as-you-go transit site, or where they do not meet criteria for a pitch (i.e. history of ASB) out of the Borough with 1 hour’s notice to move.

What happens if the site is full?
Recent experience shows that we have relatively small groups on unauthorised sites, so in the main we expect that this site (for up to 12 pitches) will be adequate. It could also be the case that for extended periods of time the site is not occupied.
Our neighbouring Councils must also provide sites, or face direction. A network of such sites in the local area should adequately cater for demand. In the highly unlikely event of overflow, we can resort to the temporary provision of an emergency stopping space, again, pre-paid, pre-organised, monitored & controlled.

What happens if the Gypsies or Travellers leave the site in a mess, like we’ve seen before, who will clean it up and pay?
This is the same as asking, “What if someone smashes up a hotel room?” The answer is the same: the hotel/site management will deal with it to the fullest extent of the law.

What will be done if the Gypsies or Travellers overstay the maximum time allowed on the transit site?
This is the same as asking, “What if someone refuses to leave his/her hotel room once their stay is completed?” The answer is the same in both cases, which is that the management will take appropriate action to have the guest removed. Further, it is unlikely that that guest will ever get another booking in the future!

What about anti social behaviour?
The Council and Police have a range of powers to deal with anti social behaviour which apply to all communities. We will use these powers to tackle any anti social behaviour that arises on the site, whether from local residents or from visitors.
This is the policy that applies to all Bournemouth neighbourhoods.

Can you explain the different kinds of sites?
A permanent site is a dwelling for local resident Gypsies or Travellers.
A transit site, or stopping place, can accommodate families up to 90 days and is the cultural equivalent of a motel.
An emergency stopping place is a piece of land chosen and set aside to accommodate families in the absence of transit provision. It would offer a standpipe, portaloos and rubbish collection. It is not an acceptable long term solution, but would deflect unauthorised encampments in the short to mid term and begin to improve the antagonistic relationship there has historically been between the Settled and Travelling peoples, making way for a more peaceful and mutually respectful co-existence from here forward.

What are the CLG criteria?
There are a whole host of criteria, covering site layout & access, on-site facilities, health & safety, fire safety, etc.
The full criteria can be found on the Communities and Local Government website at However, while this work is still in our hands, we have a great deal of flexibility as to how we achieve our obligations.

And finally……………
Our “Diversity Promise” is to ensure that at Bournemouth Borough Council, we treat all people fairly, whatever their age, sexual orientation, religious belief, disability, gender or race. Our aim is not just to meet our duties under the various aspects of Equalities Legislation, but also to make the Borough of Bournemouth a place where everyone matters and are treated as equals, according to their needs.
A recent study has found that of those domestic householders interviewed before and after the creation of a site, most had no specific complaints and many acknowledged that their previous opposition had been groundless. It is perfectly normal to worry about “what if’s” when something new is being discussed. Together, Traveller and Settled, we can work through these worries to collectively ensure a properly sited, designed, managed and run stopping place that pays for itself and that improves everybody’s lives.
More generally, the Council has a duty to promote good race relations, equality of opportunity and community cohesion. Providing a transit site and allocating specific pieces of land throughout the Borough helps fulfil this duty to the Gypsy and Traveller communities. We want to do our bit to ensure that Gypsies and Travellers have access to the facilities they require, such as a transit site and the opportunity to buy or rent a culturally appropriate home of their own.

We Want to Hear Your Ideas . . .

Townsend Community Centre
Tuesday, 24th February 2009
5.30pm - 7.30pm
Tuesday, 3rd March 2009
9.00am - 12.00 noon

The Littledown Centre
Wednesday, 25th February 2009
9am - 12 noon
Wednesday, 4th March 2009
2.30pm - 4.30pm and 6.30pm - 9.00pm

Item 5
Residents Question Time

Residents Question Time
Question 1:
Re: Daily Express - January 27th report that Bail Hostels are proposed in the BH8 - BH10 areas. Where will these be?
This is not a Council matter. Central Government has contracts to set up the hostels. We understand it does not require “change of use” under planning laws, so the Council will not know where they are and it has not received any notification.
Local councils will not have a say, but questioner feels we have every right and that the Council cannot back off.

Question 2:
What is happening about Strouden Park Community Centre?
Cllr Trickett. Plans for the Community Centre and housing are on track, but may be affected by the recession.

Question 3:
Are plans to build flats still on the agenda?
No - not viable at the moment.

Question 4:
Will the affordable houses be occupied and sold on immediately after the event, as opposite Castlepoint?
There will be mechanisms in place to ensure this will not happen.

Written Question from Forum Member living in Wilverley Avenue:
With the commencement of the construction of the hospital multi storey car park which, according to the management transet, has to date resulted in the loss of 250 staff car parking spaces,which will increase evan more as the project progresses, what action is being taken to ensure that this will not result in indiscriminate parking clogging up our roads especially since they are meant to be providing temporary parking spaces of an equal number to those lost PRIOR to spaces being removed which they have currently failed to do.
Michael Campkin, Development Control and Forward Planning Manager, Bmth Borough Council, via Cllr Rey:-
I refer to your email sent to Mr Turnbull on the above subject.

I would confirm that the detailed Planning Application for the construction of the Multi deck car park at the Royal Bournemouth Hospital stated that during construction existing parking levels would be maintained and the application was approved on that basis.

The Statements attached to the Application indicated that additional temporary car parks would be created on site and at satellite sites to maintain the overall staff parking levels, with the visitor and patient parking remaining unchanged. Following initial concerns Council officers sought further confirmation from the Hospital's Planning Agent for the project and was again reassured that the Hospital Trust would fully comply with these Application details.

Following initial site clearance and having received other queries the Council's Area Compliance Officer has inspected the site and confirmed that the two temporary parking areas have been created on site in compliance with the Application. The Compliance Officer is now seeking details of the satellite parking areas from the Hospital's Planning Agent so that they can similarly be inspected to confirm compliance.

Please therefore be assured that the Council are liaising with the Hospital Trust and monitoring conditions to ensure that during construction of the Multi deck car park they meet the details and requirements within the detailed Planning consent.

Item 6
Any Other Business

Any Other Business

Proposed date of next Forum meeting 18th June 2009

Cllr MacLoughlin gave thanks to the Chairman and Committee Members for organising a good debate.

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